Friday 8 August 2014

Well worth repeating: The Age editorial 'Playing Games With Religion In Schools'


Date August 1, 2014

The ancient book of Ecclesiastes teaches that there is a time and a place for everything. A time to be silent and a time to speak. There is also a time to pray, if that is what is needed. Whether there is a time and place for students to pray during school lunchtimes, however, is a matter that clearly causes some people enormous concern.

After state Education Minister Martin Dixon issued a ministerial direction about the rules and procedures governing the provision of special religious instruction in government schools, a cry erupted among some Christian groups claiming the rules encroach on basic human rights. Opponents of the directive say it amounts to an attack on religious freedom and free speech, and that it is a step towards outright bans on prayer in schools.

Their rhetoric is inflammatory, and their concerns are misplaced. The government is not banning prayer in school. It is not forbidding students to pray at lunchtime, if that is what they want to do with their meal break. It is saying that prayer forums ''cannot be led'' by teachers or other school staff, by parents, volunteers or visitors. Put another way, if there are prayer groups or meetings of student religious clubs during school hours, then they must not take the form of ''instructed'' prayer. That is a world away from imposing draconian curbs on the rights to religious freedom and free speech.

The rationale is simple. Government schools are secular environments and their primary aim is education. It has been that way since the Education Act of 1872 formalised that public education in this state should be free, secular and compulsory. In 1958, the law was amended to provide an exception allowing non-compulsory religious instruction classes to be held within schools, but on certain conditions and only by accredited providers. It should be noted the law does not bar religious instruction classes being held on state school grounds outside school hours.

The 2006 education legislation states that schools must ''not promote any particular religious practice, denomination or sect'', but it nevertheless allows schools to provide classes of special religious instruction during school hours, only by accredited representatives. To allow non-accredited instructors to supervise religious sessions at lunchtime would be to subvert the system entirely. Mr Dixon's directive provides a framework for schools to ensure they are abiding by the law and not inadvertently providing non-accredited religious instruction classes.

The Age has consistently argued that beyond reading, writing and arithmetic, there is room in schools for the study of the various belief systems and for informed and informative discussion about ethical choices. Education about religion should provide students with sound information about belief structures and religious practices that help shape our world, as well as provide historical context to the role played by religion in our world. A byproduct of all that might be greater social awareness and enhanced tolerance of diversity.

That does not, however, justify a state-backed religious agenda in education. A secular school system should not impose proselytising nor actively sponsor it. If religious instruction is to be conducted at all within the secular school environment, then there must be clear boundaries and rules. Where state schools do provide special classes in religious instruction, who teaches it, how, and when it is provided should all be carefully managed.

Nothing bars students from organising their own religious groups at school; they are not impeded in practising their religion at school. Their fundamental rights are preserved. At the same time, the resources and facilities of the state education system must be directed primarily to education for all

Although the directive mentioned in this editorial applies only to Victorian schools, the debate concerning religion in schools is nation-wide.

Thursday 7 August 2014

NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption's Operation Spicer hearing recommenced on 6 August 2014 and certain interested parties have been co-operating with the investigation



Federal Liberal Party director Brian Loughnane has been drawn into a corruption scandal embroiling the party after an inquiry heard allegations he rubberstamped the use of federal channels to subvert the NSW ban on donations from property developers.
The Independent Commission Against Corruption resumed public hearings on Wednesday in Operation Spicer, its inquiry in to Liberal Party fundraising.
The allegations aired during a two-hour opening address, delivered by counsel assisting the commission, Geoffrey Watson, SC, resulted in Liberal MPs Tim Owen and Andrew Cornwell stepping aside from the party and joining the crossbench….
In a sensational twist on Wednesday, Mr Owen's campaign manager Hugh Thomson has rolled over and is assisting the commission in return for an indemnity against prosecution.

7 News 6 August 2014:

In his opening address, counsel assisting the inquiry Geoffrey Watson SC said there were serious irregularities in the funding of the Liberal MP's campaign.
He also revealed that the funding of the neighbouring seat of Charlestown, which is now held by Government whip Andrew Cornwell, was being investigated.
"The evidence acquired so far clearly shows serious irregularities in the way those campaigns were conducted," Mr Watson said.
"Given what went on, a real question arises as to the validity of the result of the election in the seat of Newcastle."

Excerpts from Operation Spicer morning and afternoon hearing transcripts for 6 August 2014:

* Now, I’ll just move on to the last issue and I’ll be very brief about this
because we dealt with it in detail on the earlier occasion. During the course
of opening the earlier segment of this inquiry we said that during 2010 and
2011 Members of the Liberal Party of New South Wales used the Free
Enterprise Foundation as a means of washing and rechannelling donations
made by prohibited donors. We said that this was clearly done for the
 purpose of avoiding the impact of the Election Funding Act and that the
purpose was to disguise the true source of the money.
Further investigations have been undertaken and the result of those further
investigations confirms that what we said on the earlier occasion is accurate.
There is evidence that the use of the Free Enterprise Foundation in this
fashion was known at high levels in the Liberal Party.
It seems that the Federal Party was willing to allow itself to be used in that
way. We’ve been able to obtain an email sent on 23 July 2010, it was sent
by Simon McInnes who at that stage was the Finance Director the New
South Wales Liberal Party and it was sent by Mr McInnes to Colin Gracie
who at that stage was employed by the Federal Liberal Party, I’ll put it up
on the screen.
Mr McInnes’s inquiry was in respect of a donor was not a property
developer but Mr Gracie’s response is telling. If I just go down the bottom.
First email is to Mr Gracie, “We have a potential donor who wants to donate
towards the New South Wales campaign Banks for the Federal election but
don’t want to be disclosed under New South Wales disclosure laws not a
property developer.” Under Federal law they can donate up to $11,500 et
cetera, “Would the Federal Division be able to process donation.” There
may not be anything wrong with that but the answering is telling, “Hi
Simon, Brian Loughnane has agreed that for the time being the Federal
Secretariat will operate on the policy set out in the attachment. In effect
there is no benefit for a New South Wales donor to donate via the Federal
Secretariat”, and these are the words, “unless they are a property developer.”

* The first area of inquiry will look at the way that persons in the Liberal
Party conducted and funded campaigns for seats in the Hunter region in the
2011 State Election. Most of the time will be spend on the seat of
Newcastle but there is also a need to look at events which occurred in the
adjoining seat of Charlestown. The evidence acquired so far clearly shows
serious irregularities in the way those campaigns were conducted and
funded. Enough objective material has been collected so that we are
confident in saying that it will be established that the Liberal Party
campaign for the seat of Newcastle was partly funded from illegal sources.
The evidence is that there was a broad understanding that a number of
different prohibited donors would, acting under some subterfuge, provide
the funds to keep the campaign rolling. The persons involved in this
include, on the Liberal Party side, Hugh Thomson, he’s a lawyer who was
the campaign manager for Newcastle, Josh Hodges, a Liberal Party figure
who was brought in to co-manage the campaign, and the candidate himself,
Tim Owen.
The developers who contributed to the off-books funding include Buildev
Pty Limited, a company part-owned by Nathan Tinkler, Jeff McCloy, he is
the Mayor of Newcastle, and Hilton Grugeon, a prominent property
developer in the Hunter region. There were others as well.
There is also evidence that Michael Gallacher MLC was aware of these
arrangements and in fact suggested some of them. There is other evidence
that Christopher Hartcher MP was also aware and that he participated in
some aspects of it.

Commissioner, the scheme was crude but it was effective. Mr Hodges
raised invoices purporting to charge for consultancy services. I pause there
and say Mr Hodges has been helpful as well.
The invoices were a sham. No such services were provided. The payments
were designed to cover the salary payable to Mr Hodges for his work on Mr
Owen’s campaign. And now I’ll show as an example a false invoice raised
by Mr Hodges to Saddingtons Pty Limited. You’ll see it there, it’s to
Saddingtons and it’s for consultancy advice, commercial premises, Wyong.
Mr Hodges has told us that that was a sham invoice. Saddingtons is a
company owned by a local identity, Bill Saddington and it’s a major
hardware supplier. I’ll show another one. This is a false invoice raised by
Mr Hodges to accompany Australian Decal Sales and Manufacturing Pty
Limited. Australian Decal had provided services in Mr Owen’s campaign.
They provide those sorts of stickers, you might see them on the sides of
political candidates’ cars, that sort of thing. And you’ll see that here, that
Mr Hodges was asked to make up a false invoice addressed to Australian
Decal for consultancy advice and business plan. So that was sent on to
Australian Decal. And then I’ll show the next document because that sum,
7,000-odd to Mr Hodges was included in Australian Decal’s own invoice.
The people at Australian Decal have assisted us as well. The $7,000-odd to
Mr Hodges was included in Australian Decal’s invoice which they were told
should be issued to Buildev. Buildev eventually paid that.
Commissioner, it was also agreed that Mr Owen’s campaign needed a media
expert. A local radio identity, Luke Grant was available and with the
assistance of Michael Gallacher, MLC Mr Grant was brought in to advise on
the way that Mr Owen’s media campaign should be conducted. Now, Mr
Grant’s work was worthwhile and he was entitled to be paid for it. And
there’d been an agreed sum, he was to be paid $20,000. An arrangement
was made so that two local property developers paid for Mr Grant. Mr
Grant too has been helpful. The idea was that Mr Grant would issue
invoices to each of these property developers for $10,000, but not exactly
$10,000 because a round figure might look suspicious.

* The first is an incident which occurred when Mr Cornwell was at work. In a
previous life he was a veterinary surgeon in Cardiff. While in surgery
Mr Cornwell was called out for an urgent meeting with Jeff McCloy. They
sat in Mr McCloy’s car. Mr Cornwell thinks it was a Bentley. But anyway
they sat in Mr McCloy’s car and Mr McCloy passed over an envelope
containing a large wad of bills. Mr Cornwell says, and I think this is quite
understandable, that he was so shocked and embarrassed that he didn’t
respond. Mr Cornwell says that he didn’t even count the money but from
other means we know that it was $10,000. Mr Cornwell says he took the
money home, he put it in his sock drawer or somewhere for a while and then
later passed it to the president of the Charlestown branch Bob Bevan.
Mr Bevan was acting as a kind of, in this respect, a kind of de facto
campaign treasurer. Mr Cornwell explained to Mr Bevan, we’ve got this
from each of them, their evidence is perfectly consistent except in one
respect, Mr Cornwell explained to Mr Bevan that it was a donation which
had come from a donor who didn’t wish his identity be disclosed.
Mr Bevan remembered that it was Mac something, the name and, but that
didn’t mean anything to him at the time but anyway Mr Bevan has told us
that he could well understand a desire for anonymity in a small community.
Mr Bevan took the cash and I might say this is the only point where the
account of Mr Cornwell and Mr Bevan parts ways, Mr Bevan says that it
was in the more traditional brown paper bag and not an envelope but
anyway, Mr Bevan took the cash, he did count it, it was $10,000 in $100
bills. He banked it into a business account of his, a company called
Harmony Hill Pty Limited and when the funds cleared Mr Bevan then
donated if that’s the right word, donated the money to the Liberal Party
under the name of Harmony Hill.
Now I understand that Mr McCloy will deny that this ever occurred. It will
be a matter for the Commission as to whether or not Mr McCloy is believed
on that although it would seem a very strange story for Mr Cornwell and Mr
Bevan to invent. If this exchange did occur, and especially if Mr McCloy
continues to maintain that it did not, then the Commission would be entitled
to draw an inference that the payment was made with malign intent.

* I want to say something now about Andrew Cornwell and about Tim Owen.
Both Mr Cornwell and Mr Owen were outstanding candidates for
Parliament, each had a lucrative career and each was making a sacrifice in
seeking political office. Neither was a career politician, they were not party
machine men and they were being enlisted by the Liberal Party because they
were outstanding candidates. One can see how the experience of each made
them susceptible to being manipulated by wealthy individuals who wanted
political preferences, especially if those wealthy individuals had pre-existing
support of elements within the Party machine.
Mr Cornwell has been helpful to ICAC. He has given cooperation. His
actions may have been unwise but it would seem to us, this is just an
expression of opining between Mr O’Mahoney and myself, but it would
seem to us that those actions may have been the product of a degree of
inexperience in the face of high pressure tactics from some pretty
determined characters. I should add that there is no evidence which
suggests that Mr Cornwell actually gave any preferences to Mr McCloy or
Mr Grugeon.
Mr Owen might be in the same class. It remains to be seen the extent to
which he cooperates with this inquiry. Mr Owen was brought into the
campaign late, he was surrounded by persons whose motives were not pure.
There is hard evidence of misdeeds in the campaign in Newcastle and the
Commission expects and is entitled to expect that it will get the full
cooperation of Mr Owen.

* MR WATSON: Now, Mr Bosman, I’m not going to labour this because the
statement will speak for itself, but I feel as though people are entitled to
know something of your background, those who haven’t read the statement.
You’ve had plenty of experience in the Liberal Party and managing
campaigns?---I have.
I’ll just give some examples. You’ve been a campaign manager for the
former Prime Minister, Mr Howard?---Correct.
And you were the campaign manager for John Alexander when he won back
Bennelong?---I was.
And in 2007 the Liberal Party came to you and asked you if you would
provide your services. I just said 2007?---2011.
Yeah, I’m way behind aren’t I? It’s a poor start, my first witness. In 2011
the New South Wales Liberal Party came to you and asked you to provide
your services to helping campaigns which were being conducted on the
Central Coast and in the Hunter?---It was actually in 2010, November 2010.
They came to you for the 2011 campaign?---Correct.
And I think you were given a fairly dramatic title, I think it was called
battleground director?---I was.
And so was the battleground director you were looking after two sitting
members and a number of other candidates who were trying to win seats?
---Correct.
I’ll just detail those. In terms of the Central Coast you were looking after
the campaign for a sitting member, that’s Chris Hartcher?---Yes.
And the seat was Terrigal?---Yes.
And on the Central Coast there were three candidates who were trying to
win from Labor seats, Darren Webber at Wyong?---Yes.
Chris Spence at The Entrance?---Yes.
And Chris Holstein at Gosford?---Correct.
In the Hunter you were looking after one sitting member, that was Craig
Baumann who was the Member for Port Stephens?---Yes.
And you were also looking after four candidates who were trying to win
seats from Labor, the first was Tim Owen in Newcastle?---Yes.
Another was Andrew Cornwell in Charlestown?---Yes.
And another was Garry Edwards in Swansea?---Yes.
And the fourth was Robyn Parker in Maitland?---That’s correct.
Now your work as I understand it was to oversee the campaign to make sure
that they were in the first place complying with the requirements of the
Liberal Party?---My focus was on the campaigns for the seats we were
trying to win, the sitting member seats I was not really involved in their
campaigns.
All right. I should have made that clear. In terms of the sitting members,
that’s Mr Hartcher and Mr Baumann, the Liberal Party was actually quite
confident that they would retain those seats in the 2011 election?---Yes.
And if we just go back to the detail of it, during any election campaign more
time is devoted to those seats which are in the other party’s hands but which
are winnable?---Yes, unless it’s a very marginal seat that you’re holding and
you want to hold onto it.

Is a pattern beginning to emerge in the Abbott-Murdoch relationship?


Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott is consulting American media magnate Rupert Murdoch and News Corp before taking policies to Cabinet – is this a pattern emerging?

The Guardian 5 August 2014:

Federal cabinet has been caught unawares by media reports of a national security committee plan to require telecommunications companies to retain customers’ metadata for at least two years.
Cabinet is likely to be briefed on Tuesday morning about the plan, but had no knowledge a decision had been taken before it was revealed in the Daily Telegraph newspaper. The issue is not on the formal cabinet agenda.
Telecommunications companies had not been briefed on the decision before it was revealed in the media and were frantically seeking information on Tuesday morning, although they have responded to several parliamentary inquiries on the issue.
It is understood ministers hold strongly differing views about the practicalities of metadata retention, which has been proposed for several years and which the government argues is now needed to combat domestic terrorism threats.
According to the Daily Telegraph the attorney general, George Brandis, and the communications minister, Malcolm Turnbull, will be asked to work up an urgent interim measure by as early as September, with legislation to be introduced later after the government has considered a report from a Senate inquiry.
Neither minister was aware of the interim plan, and some government officials claimed the prime minister’s office appeared to have “gone rogue”….

The Guardian 23 July 2014:

In the book, King reveals Murdoch was consulted before Abbott announced the policy – including a levy on big business – on International Women’s Day in March 2010.
“Big business rumbled but didn’t erupt at the scheme, but the party room was in uproar,” King writes.
“The hardheads knew that it would open the Coalition up to an accusation of raising taxes even though the extra tax would only apply to big businesses. But, more importantly, neither the party room nor the businesses who would pay had been consulted.
“Abbott, however, had conferred with one leading business figure, the media proprietor Rupert Murdoch, who had been in Australia the month before for his mother’s 101st birthday …
“The new leader, like many before him, had dinner with Murdoch, where he gave the media mogul a full rundown on the scheme – supplying enough detail for Murdoch to later have his Australian-based editors briefed on Abbott’s plan, which he considered a visionary approach to dealing with a real problem in his workforce. They were encouraged to support it, notwithstanding that it represented a tax impost and was skewed to be of most benefit to parents outside their middle-Australian readership.
“This fact was unknown to members in the party room, who condemned Abbott’s solo policy-making on such a fundamental issue.”

Counter-terrorism laws according to News Corp in 2014: It's all Labor's fault!


Murdoch’s minions were in fine form in The Australian and the Herald Sun as the month began.

This piece on 2 August 2014 kicked the issue off with a fine example of mudslinging.

THE risk of terror attacks on Australian soil, including on public transport networks in capital cities, is significantly ­increased because the Gillard government downplayed a report on the dangers posed by returning home-grown jihadists.
The blunt assessment was ­issued yesterday by Anthony Whealy QC, the former judge who chaired a 2013 counter-­terrorism review and who sentenced Australian terrorist Khaled Sharrouf to five years’ jail.
He said an attack on a major railway station, such as Sydney’s Wynyard, would not take “a criminal mastermind” to engineer but could kill hundreds.
Mr Whealy, who chaired the Council of Australian Governments committee’s review of counter-terrorism legislation, said that when the report warning of serious attacks in Australia was presented to the Gillard government in March last year, it was held for two months and then quietly tabled on budget night in May.
His warning came as Tony Abbott revealed the government was considering tougher laws that could reverse the onus of proof for those returning from foreign battlefields, forcing them to explain why they had been in areas such as Syria and Iraq.

Later in the day Andrew Bolt made an attempt to whip up readers:

Labor is so in hock to Muslim voters in key marginal seats that I question whether it can be trusted with our national security.

He weighed in again with some more shock, horror, on 4 August:

Former judge Anthony Whealy QC chaired a 2013 counterterrorism review and said Labor sat on his report for two months before quietly tabling it on Budget night last year, when the media was too busy to notice.
Whealy’s report warned of exactly the threat the Abbott Government is now trying to counter, suggesting laws to force people returning from Syria and Iraq, for instance, to explain exactly what they’d been doing.
Whealy says “the response from the previous government you would have to say was slow”, but is Opposition Leader Bill Shorten embarrassed? Hell, no.

Now I recall this particular Council Of Australian Governments (COAG) report, so I was somewhat puzzled to find that my memory was playing tricks on me and that in fact what I had read was a wall-to-wall-warning to the Gillard Government of the urgent danger of home grown terrorism, which had been cravenly buried by government.

After all everyone knows News Corp never lies or gilds the lily – that its newspaper empire is a fortress of editorial integrity and journalistic ethics.

So imagine my 'surprise' when a handful of computer keystrokes brought forth this media release from May 2013:

Reviews of counter-terrorism laws released today
Posted May 14, 2013
14 May 2013
The Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus QC today tabled two important and detailed reviews of counter-terrorism and national security laws - the Council of Australian Governments (COAG) Review of Counter-Terrorism Laws and the second annual report of the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor.
“These reviews are part of the Gillard Government's commitment to protecting Australians, and ensuring national security and counter-terrorism laws are administered in a fair and balanced way,” Mr Dreyfus said.
The COAG Committee examined and made recommendations about the counter-terrorism laws enacted in the Commonwealth and the States and Territories following the 2005 London bombings.
The Independent National Security Legislation Monitor made separate recommendations about Commonwealth national security legislation, including the definition of a ‘terrorist act’, control orders, the preventative detention regime, and ASIO’s powers.
There is some overlap of the provisions that the Monitor and the COAG Review Committee reviewed.
The Government will respond to the reports following consultation with the States and Territories.
“There is no greater responsibility for a Government than protecting its national security. The Gillard Government takes National Security matters extremely seriously,” Mr Dreyfus said.
“Under Australia’s counter-terrorism framework four major terrorist attacks on Australian soil have been disrupted.
“In light of the recent terror attack in Boston, it is clear that it is as important now as it ever was to maintain strong capabilities in the fight against terrorism. Our counter-terrorism framework has held us in good stead so far, but we must remain vigilant.”
The Gillard Government created the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor to review Australia’s national security laws and counter-terrorism laws on an ongoing basis and determine whether they remain necessary, effective, proportionate and consistent with our international human rights obligations.
Both Reviews will be available online later this afternoon.
While typing Mr. Whealy’s name into Google and hitting the search button produced this piece from The Australian on 17 May 2013:

Mr Whealy, who chaired the Council of Australian Governments' review of the terror laws, recommended creating a corps of security-cleared lawyers, or "special advocates", to make it easier to contest a control order.
Other recommendations included requiring the security agencies to disclose information about their concerns to subjects of control orders and easing some of the conditions.
Mr Whealy rejected suggestions the report's 47 recommendations amounted to an overall watering down of terror laws, describing them as "a calculated, contemporary assessment" of a framework enacted in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks in New York, Washington, Bali, London and Madrid.
"If the government were to adopt what we've suggested, I think the laws would be still be effective to prevent a terrorist act in Australia," he said.

Now that assessment is much closer to how I recall the COAG Review of Counter-Terrorism report and its recommendations when it was released.

I remember one recommendation that made me smile at the time -  that relevant legislation should be amended to “create exemptions for providing training to or receiving training from a terrorist organisation for purposes unconnected with the commission of a terrorist act”.  I also thought rather generous the recommendation which included the hope that lawyers in this country be allowed to receive and hold funds from terrorist organisations for legal advice/representation of these organisations on the off chance that they might be involved in future civil/criminal proceedings.

And the revelation that the report alerted the Gillard Government to a heightened level of risk?  Well that claim is apparently based primarily on an unclassified ASIO submission which merely a gave broad brush assessment to the review committee and, was very old news by then.

In fact the national terrorism alert level has been set at Medium (terrorist attack could occur) since it was introduced in 2003.

So why are News Corp journalists getting all hot under the collar now? Of course! Prime Minister Abbott’s argument that counter-terrorism legislation needs to be tightened is best framed as Fixing Labor’s Mess.

Wednesday 6 August 2014

NSW ICAC Operation Spicer Hearings Week One August 2014 - witness list cheat sheet


OPERATION SPICER PUBLIC INQUIRY
WITNESS LIST FOR WEEK COMMENCING
4 AUGUST 2014

Wednesday, 6 August 2014

Rodney Bosman – former Regional Manager - Western Sydney at Liberal Party of Australia (NSW Division), ran the NSW Liberal Party's Hunter and Central Coast campaigns for the 2011 state election

Brien Cornwell – father of Andrew Cornwell, local property developer and a volunteer on Liberal MP Tim Owen's election campaign

Thursday, 7 August 2014

Andrew Cornwell – NSW Liberal MP for Charlestown, NSW Government Whip and former Liberal Party Newcastle branch president
Samantha Brookes – wife of Andrew Cornell and an executive officer at Newcastle University
Robin Beaven – president of the Charlestown branch of the Liberal Party

Friday, 8 August 2014

Luke Grant – radio announcer and on Newcastle Liberal MP Tim Owen's election campaign staff in 2011
Joshua Hodges – former Port Stephens councillor and member Newcastle Liberal MP Tim Owen's election campaign team
Eric Hansen – reported to be the owner of a screen-printing business that Tim Owen’s election campaign used
Shane Burrell – co-founder of Mezzanine Media

In which Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott realises that even an aspiring fascist government needs to take the electorate with it until it has taken over and extinguished every democratic institution


It would be unwise to view this as anything but a brief respite during the Abbott Government’s determined march towards a totalitarian regime.


The Abbott government has backed down on controversial plans to water down the Racial Discrimination Act.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott said it was a ‘‘leadership call’’ to bin the proposed changes to Section 18C of the act, which had been roundly criticised by ethnic community leaders and was unpopular with the wider public.
"Leadership is about preserving national unity on the essentials and that is why I have taken this position," Mr Abbott said….