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| Two fossil fools currently roaming wild in Australia Saudi Arabian Oil Company director Andrew Liveris (left) and Prime Minister Scott Morrison (right) IMAGE: Crikey, 16 September 2020 |
In March 2020 Australian Prime Minister & Liberal MP for Cook Scott Morrison created the National COVID-19 Co-ordination Commission Advisory Board with the aim of building a fossil fuel led economic recovery.
One Andrew N. Liveris - former Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Dow Chemical Company, former director of DowDuPont, current director of Saudi Arabian Oil Company, self-styled advisor to Australian & US governments and an apparent chum of Andrew 'Twiggy' Forrest of Cashless Welfare Card fame and Scott Morrison - became a Special Adviser to the Commission from April 2020 to September 2020 and head of the Commission's Manufacturing Taskforce.
Perhaps there is a hint in the following exchange as to why he is no longer mentioned in connection with the National COVID-19 Co-ordination Commission.
The man has a very large ego and a rather abrasive personality. He apparently also has a problem with basic maths.
ABC Q&A program, 22 April 2021 transcript, excerpts:
HAMISH MACDONALD:
Andrew Liveris, you’ve promoted this gas-led recovery. Many take the view that you’re committing us to fossil fuels for much longer than we need to.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
So, let me...
HAMISH MACDONALD:
Explain it. Justify it.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
...let me teach you a new term – fossil feedstock. OK? Let me...
NARELDA JACOBS:
Let me teach you a term.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Yeah, please.
NARELDA JACOBS:
If you believe there’s a future in fossil fuels...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Yeah.
NARELDA JACOBS:
...then you are a fossil...fool.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Narelda...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Thank you. I take it as a...I take it as a badge of honour that you would call me that. Fossil feedstock is all of your modern life. You want to live a modern life, you need a fossil feedstock. You can’t get carbon any other way. If you want a chemistry lesson, I’ll help you out the back.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
Oh...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
What you’ve got to do...
SARAH HANSON-YOUNG:
Man...
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
Andrew. Andrew.
SARAH HANSON-YOUNG:
...you’re just...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Listen.
SARAH HANSON-YOUNG:
You’re so patronising. Like, just...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
But...
SARAH HANSON-YOUNG:
Seriously.
HAMISH MACDONALD:
Let’s just try and keep it respectful amongst all of us...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
And you’re not?
HAMISH MACDONALD:
...and stick to the policy...
SARAH HANSON-YOUNG:
Well, I’m not the one shaking my finger at people, mate.
HAMISH MACDONALD:
Folks, let’s just keep to the policy, if we can.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Yeah. Well, you’re yelling.
HAMISH MACDONALD:
Uh, why is it that Australia...why is it that Australia needs a gas pipeline, for example, across the Nullarbor to bring it to the east coast from the west? Can you just justify this promotion of a gas-led recovery?
ANDREW LIVERIS:
There’s 850,000 Australians employed by industries that use gas as a feedstock. 850,000. At the current pricing levels, they’re paid Japanese spot price. Spot price. So, Japan gets cheaper gas than we do for our industry. Those industries you need for everyday life. And I’ll take the commentary that I’m patronising and I’m yelling, ‘cause I’m passionate about this, ‘cause there’s a gap in our knowledge base.
I’ll buy Malcolm’s discussion on gas as a firming fuel anytime. I totally agree with that. Gas as a segue to hydrogen, I also agree with that. That’s the fuel part. The feedstock part is not well understood, and it absolutely, totally makes me... Try to understand, why is it not understood in this wonderful country of ours? These jobs need to be not only protected, but we need to grow them. So, we... This sequester of carbon…
HAMISH MACDONALD:
So, how long do we need gas for as a transition fuel, then?
ANDREW LIVERIS:
So, again, you use the word ‘fuel’, OK, and I’m trying to actually...
HAMISH MACDONALD:
Yeah, I understand the point you’re making about feedstock, but...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
You do?
HAMISH MACDONALD:
...ultimately, this is a question that’s been put to you about a commitment to fossil fuels longer-term.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
So, remember...
HAMISH MACDONALD:
So, I’m just trying to understand what you...what period you see us using gas as a transition for.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
The National COVID Commission work we did was for manufacturing, OK? It wasn’t for electricity. It wasn’t for doing the power balance, or any of that. The work we did was totally based on using the carbon for manufacturing. That’s the work we did. OK? I have no skin in the game to keeping natural gas for power, for anything other than a transition. There’s no reason to do that. Because it is an emitter. It’s not as big an emitter as coal, but it certainly is an emitter. So you’ve got to use it as a transition. That’s it. Until batteries become affordable and scalable, until we can actually get more Snowy Hydros. And why you need a gas pipeline is as much to provide that transition for that, but more for industry, which is why I’m trying to bring it back to the feedstock conversation.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
Andrew, where are the 850,000 jobs that use gas as feedstock?
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Fertilisers, plastics, chemicals, explosives… [my yellow highlighting]
NOTE: An estimated 16,511 persons are employed in the four industries cited by Mr. Liveris. See note below.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
And there are 850,000 people working in Australia making plastics?
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Yes, yes.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
Is that right?
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Not plastics – all those industries I just said.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
I don’t think that’s true.
SARAH HANSON-YOUNG:
No. Yeah.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
That is true. I can send you the data.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
I think you’ve exaggerated. I honestly think you’re way out of...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Well...
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
...you’re way off the chart.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
Malcolm, I use the same people you used for research, as when you were prime minister. So, go talk to the people in Canberra.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
OK. Well...
ANDREW LIVERIS:
I mean, they’re the same...
MALCOLM TURNBULL
I don’t mind you mansplaining me. That’s alright. (CHUCKLES)
ANDREW LIVERIS:
I’m not. I’m not, Malcolm.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
You are, but it’s alright. It’s OK. It’s OK.
ANDREW LIVERIS:
That’s a pretty cheap blow.
MALCOLM TURNBULL:
It’s OK. It’s OK. It’s alright.
NOTES:
1.Fertiliser Manufacturing in Australia in 2021 employed 3,557 persons.
2.Plastics Manufacturing & Plastic Bottle Manufacturing in Australia in 2020 & 2021 employed a combined total of 8,154 persons.
3.Explosives Manufacturing in Australia in 2020 & 2021 employed 3,527 persons.
4.Basic Organic Chemical* Manufacturing in Australia in 2020 employed 1,273 persons. *The modern term “basic organic chemical” now refers to chemicals derived from both organic and carbon sources such as petroleum & natural gas.
5.Industrial Gas Manufacturing in Australia in 2021 employed 2,005 persons.
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